It’s not you; it’s me.

If there are some readers of this post who are into female supremacy or are actively involved in a relationship they would describe as a Female Led Relationship please don’t take the following as a criticism of anyone’s choices, in fact…

for those happily engaged in any form of FLR, you might want to look away. I understand there are some fabulous things to look at over here.

Ok, I’m serious.

Contented FLR people should find something else to read now.

I really don’t want to offend you.

Look away.

Go on now,

ok, love you, buh bye!

Alright, now that they are gone I am going to just state how I feel about the whole thing without worrying about hurting their feelings. I’m sure they are super folks and not really the people being discussed below anyway. My problem is not with people doing their kink however it suits them, my problem is with absolutists.

This post is just an expression of my personal point of view and my preferences  (and was encouraged by Stabbity,  on a recent post about roughly the same ideas). It is also me rejecting the idea that there is a “ONE TRUE WAY” and the rest of us are either doing it wrong or poorly.

Thing is,

while I adore being dominant in the sexual arena (not just the bedroom), and I absolutely will not tolerate being manipulated or pushed around in ANY arena – I don’t really want to be responsible for another adult human being.

I married the man I did because he was attractive to me, he was also my friend, he was someone I wanted to spend the rest of my life with,

(oh, to be young and all romantical, hmm?)

and I could see us going through life as partners, equals. We are both smart asses, good debaters, and incredibly hardheaded. He was someone I respected, liked, and wanted, and he reciprocated those feelings, so I was willing to say, Yes, this is the man I will live with, and agree with, or argue with, or persuade, or negotiate with, or be persuaded by for ever after.

Many of the girls I grew up with had a very different kind of relationship in mind. They couldn’t wait to marry some big, strong, handsome man who was much smarter and stronger than they were, and the unequivocal head of his household and master of his domain to whom they would submit fully, just as the Lord God intended. These were the same gal who mostly seemed to be under the impression their brain was there primarily there to prop their hair up. They had no intention of going to college. After all, there was no sense worrying their pretty little heads about any sort of higher learning nonsense. Womenfolk were honored with the high calling of making babies, cleaning house, and ensuring their men were properly cared for and treated like demi-gods.

Sound like a scene from the 50s?

Yah, I know, but the very conservative fundamentalists do rather have that stale, outdated aroma about them.

**rabbit trail**

I remember in my early teen years, during the mid-80s, there was a particularly popular speaker who graced us with his hell-fire and damnation preaching. He warned us against dance halls and disco parlors (among other super sinful things, like contemporary Christian music, or worse yet, “rock n’ roll, ” rebellious wimmen runnin’ all over town in them blue jeans, Hollywood movies, and ERA-supporting liberals who were trying to ruin Ahmer’ca).

Dance halls and disco parlors though, seriously?? WTF??

The only way I could have generated anything but contempt for the man was if his finale was to break out into a rousing chorus of, “We got trouble, right here in River City” and he then revealed it was all an elaborate Candid Camera prank. That did not happen.

**/rabbit trail**

Anyway, these girls became women, some of them happily homeschooling the 18 children who popped out of their clown car, I mean, vagina, and others ended up miserable and confused because their wedded lord and master was abusive, or unfaithful, or an asshole, or whatever, but of course it would be dreadfully selfish, if not sinful, to leave the man. No, no, a good wife will just love and forgive and pray for the dear man.

Soooooo, yah, I have damage.

I acknowledge this, and that damage is very much responsible for my feelings about relationships that are not egalitarian at their core.

I am very leery about relationships that are not firmly based on an understanding of absolute equality.

I completely reject the notion that external genitalia makes anyone more inherently qualified to make decisions. It offends me when people behave as though it does.

Nor can I accept the corresponding idea, that someone with internal genitalia is somehow better qualified.

Now, any woman who wants to submit to her man and let him run the show is more than welcome to do so, of course, and men who want to do the same with their women are equally entitled. If they even want to go so far as to embrace some supremacy ideology, well, that too is their decision but there are some very sinister things lurking in the shadows of that line of reasoning. If one gender is inherently superior to another, than why not one race? Hideous, inhuman behaviors have been justified by right of assumed superiority. The following warning applies despite the fact these are well-charted waters;

here be monsters.

So, now I will set aside the femsuprem thing and talk about just female led relationships. Here is one of my concerns, and it based on my personal experience and opinion- people who want someone to run their life for them are sometimes looking to abdicate their personal responsibility,  which is not a healthy tendency and rarely makes for a healthy relationship.

For example, when I hear (or read) that some sub really needs his/her dominant partner to call and make sure s/he is doing his/her chores I get a little squicked out.

You know who I have to call and remind to do their chores? My children!

It is a sign of maturity that my elder son no longer requires that sort of prompting on a regular basis.

Live and let live, sure, but it does weird me out, ok. That is just my reaction.

Also (and here we move even further into the realm of my own personal issues about volition and manipulation)

there is sometimes this undercurrent of,

“I don’t want to deal with the actual demands and responsibilities of being a grown up in the world and in a relationship and so I will opt for this other kind of relationship that basically entitles one partner to perpetual immaturity in exchange for obedience, and the other partner gets all the control and all the responsibility.”

I know the argument could be made that it is wonderfully self- sacrificial for the sub to devote themselves in this way, blah blah blah. There are blogs and books that proclaim how great it, and I know that is how some people see it. For couples who find that life style to meet their needs, (who shouldn’t be reading this anyway, they were told to go look at pretty pictures) I wish them well. Maybe if my damage were different a female-led relationship would be more appealing or, who knows, maybe even a male-led one would apppeal (though that stretches credulity for me, unless we are talking about a major head injury). Nevertheless, couples who have forged any functioning and fulfilling relationship deserve a round of applause; it’s hard work!

BUT

here is my biggest problem with it,

I fucking HATE IT when it is implied that a FLR is the sole rightful culmination of femdom and anything else is something less.

For those who find it fits their mutual neuroses and kinks I am sure a FLR is a lot of fun and very fulfilling (that isn’t a slam, we ALL seek relationships that will fit our neuroses and kinks)

but for some of us it is not an appealing option at all.

I love that my fucktoy and I walk through life as equals but when it comes to our love life, there is no question about who will call the shots. He wants to submit to what I want. It is not a function of worth, or gender. It is sexual. It is about what turns us both on and how that dovetails together. We continue to grow, and experiment, and learn new things but our power dynamic is very stable, and we are both very happy with it.

It bothers me a lot that there might be a proto-dominant woman who doesn’t WANT to be in a female led relationship but is only hearing the nonsense about it being The Right Way.

It is not the right way, it is just one possible way. Being a dominant woman does not mean you “should” be in charge of everything all the time or you don’t reeeeeeeeally qualify for the title.

If a FLR is what works for you, well, go for it,

but if not, throw the bullshit flag, sister.

It is your party and you can play anyway that works for you and your partner!


22 Responses to “It’s not you; it’s me.”

  • Tom Allen

    “Clown cars”
    You really went there, didn’t you?

    I liked the link to the Buddhist perspectives.

    Being a dominant woman does not mean you “should” be in charge of everything all the time or you don’t reeeeeeeeally qualify for the title.

    Here’s last week’s issue from another angle. And again, the idea that this concept exists is based on the old school D/s models that have made their way from the night clubs to the movies to the internet chat rooms.

    I blame society.

  • dishevelleddomina

    I did, I went there.
    I’m not proud of it, but sometimes it has to be done.

    http://www.imagepoop.com/image/1707/Vagina-It-s-Not-A-Clown-Car.html

    As for blame, if you are going to blame society I will blame the government.
    That should cover all the bases.

  • Fizz

    The thing that creeps me out about FLR is the idea that in order for it to be deviant and require a name, it requires the default assumption that relationships are led by men. That is, if we didn’t specify that a given heterosexual relationship was female-led, people would assume it was led by the man. FLR requires your friends’ 50s-style ideas about relationships as a foundation in order to make sense; since I lack that foundation, it doesn’t make sense to me.

    • dishevelleddomina

      Actually, Fizz, because of my perspective I tend to assume modern relationships are egalitarian, at least in intent if not in practice.
      I don’t mind the clarification and I don’t personally feel it necessarily assumes the outmoded approach as a default, though I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

      • Fizz Ellis

        because of my perspective I tend to assume modern relationships are egalitarian, at least in intent if not in practice.

        Well, yes–I do too, in real life. :) And I’m completely with you on the reasoning in the post. I see what you mean, that female-led could just as literally be an alternative to egalitarianism … but it isn’t my read of the intent. (I think we both see both perspectives, but have different instincts about it.)

  • Peroxide

    At some point even in an egalitarian partnership one member will have to take the lead.
    I’m just curious outside of the sexual arena (where you reign as undisputed queen) if Hubby wants Chinese food and you want Mexican who gets their way? (assuming you don’t end up and *Casa de Changs*)

    • dishevelleddomina

      Hmmm, to tell you the truth, I tend to be pretty easy-going. If he has his heart set on Chinese, that will probably work for me.
      Realistically though, if push comes to shove and we are genuinely at odds changes are fairly good I will get what I want, unless he can persuade me to his point of view.
      Operationally, on a day to day basis he probably get his way most of time, but if for some reason a particular decision or situation matters to me, I am likely to get my way on that.

  • Ferns

    I don’t identify my relationships as FLR, but I do think your definition seems quite narrow (though you don’t define it exactly).

    I appreciate the idealism of assuming equality in a relationship, but the fact is that I have never been in an equal relationship in my life, vanilla or no. It really has nothing to do with superiority or supremacy or FLR. It has to do with preference (am I nitpicking semantics now? Not sure, so I am soldiering on…).

    In vanilla relationships, I had the power because if I didn’t get my way, I would become unhappy and I would leave. Yeah, that sounds all chest thumpy (and petulant and childish!), and believe me, it’s not that simple (insert lots of angst and trouble and fighting and all that here), but it’s the fundamental truth. It’s a key reason why I seek out submissive men now.

    It’s not about me micro managing everything and it’s not about him asking for permission for everything and it’s *certainly* not about him NEEDING me to make decisions for him (really, the ‘so he’s a child’ argument sets my teeth on edge). It *is* about me recognising that anything beyond superficial compromise makes me resentful and unhappy. I don’t want to fight about the things that I want and I also don’t want to give them up, so I need someone who gets pleasure out of saying “Yes, Ma’am” to things he may not always agree with. Is that an FLR? *shrug* Don’t know, don’t care, really, but I suspect it would fall under that definition to many.

    To peroxide’s point, if he wants Chinese for dinner and I want Mexican, we have Mexican and we both know that and there will be no argument about it.

    Ferns

    • dishevelleddomina

      Ferns, you are exactly the sort of person who was sent to look at pretty pictures. Based on what I know of you, from reading your writing, I have no concern that you are confused about what being a dominant woman means for you, or how to have a healthy relationship within a framework created by that. You have sorted out what you need, and you look for men who fit with that.

      I know you must have seen the kinds of conversations I was referencing, in which the submissive does take on the role of a dependent. I was not saying all lifestyle submissives do that, but it does happen.

      My concerns about relationships in which one person has more power than the other are centered primarily around unhealthy aspects (again, in my opinion) of those relationships and the way some people are beaten over the head with the idea there is A RIGHT WAY, and anything else is wrong.

      • Ferns

        “Ferns, you are exactly the sort of person who was sent to look at pretty pictures.”

        But but… I DID!!! (very nice, btw!)

        I read on because I *don’t* identify with the groups you said should not read, so felt pretty safe (ok, I would have read on anyway, but that’s beside the point!), and it led me to the question ‘what *are* these definitions anyway?’

        I am not at all disagreeing with your overall point (i.e. choose what works), nor your assertion that there are strong advocates for particular one true wayisms that need to be debunked, I am just questioning the presentation of ‘types’ that are so ill defined, but somehow clearly delineated. ‘Female supremacy & FLR’ = BAD vs ‘equality’ = GOOD comes through as a theme *even though I know that is not your point and you advocate ‘good for you if it works’ throughout*!

        Your examples bothered me in that ‘I-think-you-are-WRONG-for-doing-x, but-you-go-ahead-and-do-it-if-it-makes-you-happy’ kind of way that you are decrying from the other side.

        “If they even want to go so far as to embrace some supremacy ideology, well, that too is their decision but there are some very sinister things lurking in the shadows of that line of reasoning.”

        …people who want someone to run their life for them are sometimes looking to abdicate their personal responsibility”

        “You know who I have to call and remind to do their chores? My children!”

        (I know, it sucks when someone comes along and picks out something that wasn’t your focus to comment on, but your post made me uncomfortable in that way, despite total agreement with your overall point about prevailing attitudes in some circles and your wanting to advocate that there are more choices than that).

        Ferns

      • dishevelleddomina

        I would characterize my intent in the above examples not as
        “yer doin’ it wrong”
        so much as an explanation of why it doesn’t work for me personally.

        I did try to make it clear that I was speaking about my personal views and tastes. I was not contrasting wrong and right, I was contrasting what works for me and what doesn’t work for me (and clarifying why), by way of making the point we all get to decide for ourselves what we want.

        Regarding the quotes;

        Supremacy doctrines are scary to me, regardless of what they prefer. I will take a live and let live position with it since femsuprem folk are not out lynching anyone or staging hate rallies, but it concerns me.

        Similarly, my experience with certain people who were looking for someone to take over their lives and be responsible for them rather than deal with their own issues has left me very cautious about individuals looking to abdicate personal responsibility, even if they claim it as their kink.
        I did not mean, nor did I say, that a healthy relationship was impossible within the dynamic of one person being dominant. If I believed that I would be condemning nearly every western marriage over the last century. I just have some personal reservations about it.

        The last quote speaks again to the dynamic mentioned above. It is not personally appealing to think of someone wanting me to take on that level of responsibility for them and I really want it said loudly and proudly that I don’t have to want that in order to be a dominant woman.

        The main reason I didn’t define my terms is because there are soooooo many ways to do it and really, my post was to highlight a couple specific aspects of certain approaches to FLRs that squick me out.
        When I started working on this idea the definitions were the logical starting point, but until I decided to just work from my personal point of view I was not making any headway. THAT is why I didn’t define them.

      • Ferns

        Thanks for your explanation, and to be honest, I always struggle with the often blurry distinction between:

        “Just not my thing.”

        vs

        “That squicks me!” (add an ‘eeewww’ at the front, and I’m bristling even though I know it’s completely personal opinion and people are entitled to them)

        vs

        “People who do it are wrong/damaged/delusional/some other thing!”

        I appreciate that you were saying the first and do know full well that I am bringing my own bias into my reading.

        Ferns

  • Stabbity

    I love so many things about this post :) The clown car picture in the comments made my day.

    I especially identify with this part

    For example, when I hear (or read) that some sub really needs his/her dominant partner to call and make sure s/he is doing his/her chores I get a little squicked out.

    You know who I have to call and remind to do their chores? My children!

    The inability to run your own life is one of my biggest turn-offs. If I wanted to be anybody’s mommy, I would’ve had kids.

    This part is great too

    It is not the right way, it is just one possible way. Being a dominant woman does not mean you “should” be in charge of everything all the time or you don’t reeeeeeeeally qualify for the title.

    The idea that 24/7 total power exchange is the highest and best form of kink drives me up a wall. I get enough crap for being shy and quiet, I don’t need yet another way to fail to measure up to the stereotypical icy bitch dominatrix.

    I also think you did a better job than I did of articulating exactly why assuming some people should be in charge based on whether they have internal or external plumbing is so incredibly creepy.

    • dishevelleddomina

      Thanks!

      I don’t think that the sub as a dependent model is the most prevalent but it definitely doesn’t work for me either.

      The hierarchical thinking in kink in nothing new. I remember reading, ages ago that this is how it works;
      we are sexually sophisticated,
      you are kinky,
      they are twisted perverts.

      Variations are not not always welcomed even in deviant society.

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  • DC

    This is one of the most thoughtful exchanges I’ve read in a long time about D/s, and about an aspect of D/s that does she a lot of varying approaches.

    I too have a live and let live attitude (being over 40 has at least helped give me the wisdom to be highly non-judgmental… though I do tend to judge absolutists harshly ;) .) WIthout attempting to define FLR’s, when I read blogs and profiles I sense of a few flavors and attendant rationales:

    FLR – inherently (genetically?) based
    FLR – unhealthy choice based (low male volition, manipulation, irresponsible abdication)
    FLR – healthy choice based (high volition) and the space this operates in can range from just sexual to sexual + takeout food decisions + everything in between.

    The first two flavors seem the dangerous kinds mentioned above and last much more healthy and a type where reasonable people can be accepting of variation because fundamentally there is mutual respect, equality, and full informed consent (ie not a ‘minor’ maturity wise).

    There is a nobel prize winning economist who writes about ‘agency’ (a la volition) and describes 2 hungry men – one due to lack of food, the other making the ultimate active choice of a hunger strike – the 2 manifest very different levels of agency, consent, equality. Seems to me there may be parallels to types of ‘bound’ men.

  • Celtic queen

    And I also went off to see the pretty pictures – but I came back too to see what was going on as it looked like fun too. I’m glad I did otherwise I wouldn’t have learned the delightful new slang “clown car” which I shall attempt to weave into every conversation for the next three days :-)

    It is, as ever, an issue of tired baggage being dragged around by pigeon hole terms. I imagine there are many, many couples happily living with a specific power dynamic evolved over time who would be very puzzled to read the label assigned to them by idiots who need to have the world organised JUST SO. It’s a kind of linguistic OCD. My hub and I behave in a certain way, therefore we state we are in an FLR which is established shorthand for me wearing the trousers. So far, so inoffensive. But then absolutists get hold of the term and ascribe the way it MUST work and would berate me for doing the lion’s share of the housework because I’m a “Domme” and yet I expect my hub to pick his own underpant choices of a morning so I’ve failed somewhere in this identikit pic of a Domme.

    My advice? Fuck ‘em off. They can come and dictate my life practices when they can prove their omnipotence and fitted sheet ironing skills. BDSM jihadis are as tedious as any other fundementalists and should be treated with the same amount of content. They are enemies of free speech and expression and if it wasn’t for the internet they would be condemned to grumbling away in the corner of dirty bars in groups of two or three, flatulently imposing their tiny world view on an unsuspecting, uncaring and apathetic world.

    In terms of equality in the genders, I too am very uncomfortable with an assumption of either somehow being “better” and have even bored myself with the amount I have blogged on this. You only have to cast a glance to the Middle East to see what instability occurs when one gender is subjugated to another. Hyper feminised societies are also dangerously unstable concepts too – on a much smaller scale the UK is seeing some unwanted effects on male academic acheivement by adopting practices that heavily favour female ways of learning. The result? Swathes of young lads being disenfranchised, a rise in gang membership and all the attendant social ills. Yes, gender is ostensibly a binary state but I also do believe that traits are plotted in a Venn diagram with huge overlaps. Quite where there is space for an assertion of gender superiority in all that, I dunno.

    • dishevelleddomina

      Well, alright then, I’m glad you came back; I liked what you had to say.
      ;)

      In the midst of this conversation I’ve come to the realization that though we classify ourselves as an egalitarian couple, some of the flr stuff does apply to our relationship. I imagine Venn diagrams would be most useful in characterizing power balances as well.

  • dishevelleddomina

    DC,
    Very nicely described, yes!
    Even this is a somewhat simplified version of what is represented in the real world but I think you did a great job of describing what we were discussing here.
    Thank you for adding that to the comments.

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